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Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
Looks like a missed such a big
fightthread)) Anyway, long story short: can we have something like a short summary to understand what is needed for the both parties to become happy and the collaboration could go on?Best regards,
Ivan Sokolov
Cetmix Odoo Solutionscetmix.com 
This message is sent using Mail Messages Easy app ----- Original message -----
Date: Jun 26, 2025, 5:06:36 PM
From: Notifications
Subject: Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternativeHi everyone,Honestly, I don't understand certain attitudes of the board and of PSCs in the community. I don't know if the community spirit has been lost and only the business spirit remains.
I've been in OCA for years, and honestly, this environment, decisions, and 0 accountability... it just seems like no one wants to take responsibility for anything, and in the end, OCA is shelved due to the lack of collaboration. A new repository will be opened among and for members who truly want to collaborate appropriately.Greetings,Valentín Vinagre Urteaga
CTO
Sygel Technology S.L
+34 613 04 66 67 
valentin.vinagre@sygel.es 
https://www.sygel.es 
C/ Àlaba 61, 5ª planta, 08005, Barcelona El El jue, 26 jun 2025 a las 13:27, Daniel Reis <notifications@odoo-community.org> escribió:_______________________________________________
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by "Ivan Sokolov via Cetmix OÜ" <team@cetmix.com> - 12:24 - 27 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
Hey Valentin,
just to clarify, the Board had no intention of getting mixed up in this until discussions here on the mailing list seemed to take a negative turn. It was then though that by inviting the actors to a meeting to help them decide a constructive way forward, we could let things take a positive turn.
After the meeting, same actors have been stirring up the same argument on the mailing list again even though in the meeting they agreed to the way forward.
And to make it worse, now we get more heated responses and even the Board is being made responsible for the course of events?
It is like, there is a fight on the street and someone tries to intervene, and then that person gets kicked in the head instead :-)
What I think is: everyone can make their argument, and maybe what came out of the meeting is not the best.
But we must try to treat each other with friendliness and respect, and assume each other's good intentions, because I think no-one, not the actors in the feud, not the PSC's, not the Board, is here with bad intentions or "business spirit" or what not. We just have a disagreement about something technical, and maybe a confusion about who gets to decide. But there is absolutely no bad intentions.
-Tom
On 6/26/25 17:06, Valentin Vinagre Urteaga wrote:
Hi everyone,Honestly, I don't understand certain attitudes of the board and of PSCs in the community. I don't know if the community spirit has been lost and only the business spirit remains.
I've been in OCA for years, and honestly, this environment, decisions, and 0 accountability... it just seems like no one wants to take responsibility for anything, and in the end, OCA is shelved due to the lack of collaboration. A new repository will be opened among and for members who truly want to collaborate appropriately.
Greetings,
Valentín Vinagre Urteaga
CTO
Sygel Technology S.L
+34 613 04 66 67 valentin.vinagre@sygel.es https://www.sygel.es C/ Àlaba 61, 5ª planta, 08005, Barcelona
El El jue, 26 jun 2025 a las 13:27, Daniel Reis <notifications@odoo-community.org> escribió:
Hello all,
First I would like to thank all community members for voicing their perspectives around the current situation with the oca/bank-payment project. Your commitment to OCA’s long-term success and open collaboration is deeply appreciated.
Reviewing the discussion for a Board Member perspective I feel there are some important notes that need to be made here.
I will not comment on any technical details, nor will I discuss any views on individual attitudes or merits. As a board member, the most important perspective here is on governance integrity, project ownership, and community trust.
Clarifying on project governance, I believe the OCA Board agrees with me if I say the following:
Respect for PSC Authority The OCA Board reaffirms the Project Steering Committee’s (PSC) responsibility and decision-making authority within the scope of their projects. This is foundational to our community governance model and must be preserved.
Transparency and Neutrality of the Board The Board’s role is not to impose technical decisions but to facilitate alignment, mediate conflicts when escalated, and uphold governance structures. We acknowledge that people involved in PSCs can also be Board members, but they are not acting in that capacity, and it does not grant them any particular privileges in those PSCs.
Forks and Innovation Channels While forks are a natural part of open-source ecosystems, “endorsed” forks under the OCA umbrella must be handled transparently, with consensus from relevant PSCs and clear processes.
In face of the above, and on some comments on the email thread, I need to set the record straight:
Let me reaffirm that it is NOT up to the OCA Board to make decisions on the direction of oca/bank-payment project, or any other project governed by a PSC for the matter.
It is solely up to the Banking PSC to make the decisions on the evolution of the project, and how to handle diverging options.
The Board can intervene to facilitate alignment, but the decisions ultimately need to come from the PSC.
Perhaps the PSC needs to meet to clarify the decisions made and the plan for the main and fork repos. A joint written statement can help ensure a shared understanding of those commitments, and avoid misunderstandings. The OCA Board is here to help facilitate this, and our Executive Director, Virginie, can help to ensure total independence on this facilitation.
Thank you Daniel
On 25/06/2025 08:58, Jorge Elena Poblet wrote:
Dear all,
I would like to express my opinion on this matter and propose a perspective that focuses on broader value, community cohesion, and long-term sustainability.
While I recognize that Alexis' code is technically sound, we must also evaluate it in terms of value proposition to the OCA and its ecosystem. In my view, the added value does not outweigh the negative consequences of a fragmented community. The creation of a fork (especially one that causes division) undermines our collective efforts not only in terms of development but also in our market competitiveness as implementation partners offering open-source solutions.
We are not just competing on code quality. We are competing in a global market where alignment, collaboration, and unity are crucial. A divided community weakens our position, and this discord will inevitably impact other critical areas such as sponsorships, memberships, and contributor engagement.
If the OCA board allowed this situation to unfold (or worse, endorsed it) then I firmly believe the OCA board has a responsibility to fix it. That means actively engaging with the involved parties, reestablishing governance boundaries, and restoring trust and unity within the community. We look to the board not only for leadership but also for accountability in upholding the values and processes that bind us.
This is no longer just about a particular module or technical choice. It's about governance, trust, and direction. The cost of internal fragmentation is far higher than the perceived benefits of a controversial code improvement, no matter how well-crafted.
We urgently need to redirect our energy and focus toward strengthening our community, improving our collective output, and reinforcing our presence in the Odoo ecosystem. This is how we compete, how we grow, and how we stay relevant. Let’s not allow internal conflict to derail that mission.
Best regards,
On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 8:37 AM Stuart J Mackintosh <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
As well as working with Odoo since 2006 and open Source since 10 years before, I lead a US Open Source foundation. I am an avid supporter of OSC and grateful to all of the contributors.
Normally an observer here, I felt compelled to support Graeme's point that once a governance structure is set up such as PSC, it holds the decision until the PSC is disbanded or leadership is changed. So above any technical argument, governance takes precedence.
The Foundation I lead is the Perl Foundation, well known for the acronym TIMTOWTDI (There Is More Than one Way To Do It) and this holds true in many areas and allows for experiments and empirical improvements, creating the opportunity for constructive arguments. However when on the user face of a successful mature project, there should be one recognised solution - forks etc should all be welcome, however PSC must have authority to recognise what is the official distribution. Once this rule is broken, it becomes very hard to ensure consistency and worst case, leads to core contributors to burn out and exit.
It has been valuable reading the technical exchange on this matter, and concerning to read that there may have been a breach of governance.
Best wishes,
Stuart.
On 24/06/2025 23:12, Graeme Gellatly wrote:
This seems a case of the OCA board overstepping its bounds, and prima facie, appears quite conflicted to boot. When a board can unilaterally override a project leader, this is a problem and it is this behaviour that will lead to senior contributor abandonment. Especially when that project leader has clearly shown a path forward and board members have a vested interest in the alternative. Without this interest a fork was probably avoided altogether (and the new issues this is already creating), and eventually agreement reached, but if it was ultimately deemed necessary, it would have occurred outside the OCA and ultimately converged at some future point.
Pedro and I have had disagreements over the years, and long may they continue. But I was never so churlish to think that just because I thought something was better I could unilaterally sidestep a project leader. Beyond adhering to basic principles of open source governance and mediating, insofar as it does not affect the OCA Project as a whole, this is not a board decision. By its own constitution, such power is vested in the PSC. The board can choose to remove a PSC, but not unilaterally override its decision and historically when such disputes reached the board that was often the consideration. This is Open Source dynamics forever under the "authority follows responsibility" principle.
In this, I can only back him 100%. As the clear leader of this particular project under the responsibility principle, whether you agree with him or not, it is a PSC decision and ultimately the project leader. If years of contribution and merit can be discarded by fiat, then it isn't really open source anymore is it? I ask myself which repo will be next. Certainly for me, if the OCA wishes to abandon these principles, it is not for the better.
On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:47 PM Pedro M. Baeza <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
There are a lot of people that strongly disagrees with the creation of this fork, that is something with no precedence in OCA, and offered to merge the improvements into the main branch, with the only exception of the point 1 "Adoption of the native object account.payment.method.line as "Payment Method" (replaces the OCA object account.payment.mode)", postponing the decision to version 19 to check with Odoo SA if they expand the usage of that fields, because the so called "native model" is not for that purpose, and the changes that have been made for adopting it as so is deforming even more the standard, but it was miserable ignored. You can see in the same thread the technical reasons to not use such data model, but also the ethical and practical ones, as the fork started on version 16, ignoring all the improvements and bugfixes done meanwhile in 17 (or now announced in this thread as new things, while they were there for a long time thanks to multiple contributors), and also not respecting such contributions attribution, which is one of the main principles of the open source.
I'm deeply disappointed by both the attitude of the people involved, including some board members, and the arbitration done by the OCA itself, and I'm personally commiting to bring the improvements mentioned here that are still pending (obviously, respecting the attribution) to the main OCA/bank-payment branch, so please take all of this into account when you decide which one to use.
Regards._______________________________________________
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Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--
Stuart J Mackintosh
Business & digital technology consultant
Open Digital Consulting Co
UK: +44 20 36 27 90 40
FR: +33 1 89 48 00 40
Email: sjm@opendigital.cc
_______________________________________________
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Jorge Elena Poblet
Founder & CEO
Binhex
j.elena@binhex.cloud
Office (Spain) : +34 622 40 08 08
Office (USA): +1 561 403 4406Offices:
Miami | 8325 NE 2nd Ave, Miami, FL 33138, United States
Texas | 27027 Westheimer Pkwy Katy, TX 77494, United States
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by Tom Blauwendraat - 12:24 - 27 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
Hello Valentin,
I feel I was not clear enough in my previous message,
I'll repeat that it is not the board's role to overstep the PSC, if this is what is being expected.
If people don't agree with this, then a deep revision on the PSC status needs to be made and approved at a Delegates General Assembly.
To be clear, as far as I can tell, as a result of the discussion had by the Banking PSC members:
- the fork repository has been decided and created by the PSC,
- the existing repository will continue it's current course, so nothing changes technically for the people invested in the current design options.
There are differences remaining on what the technical evolution should look like.
The divergence is not ideal, but this is the nature of open source and collaboration.
We need to gradually work it out.
The key aspect is that the PSC responsible for the project keeps its integrity, stays open for constructive discussions, and makes sound decisions.
Thanks
Daniel
On 26/06/2025 16:06, Valentin Vinagre Urteaga wrote:
Hi everyone,Honestly, I don't understand certain attitudes of the board and of PSCs in the community. I don't know if the community spirit has been lost and only the business spirit remains.
I've been in OCA for years, and honestly, this environment, decisions, and 0 accountability... it just seems like no one wants to take responsibility for anything, and in the end, OCA is shelved due to the lack of collaboration. A new repository will be opened among and for members who truly want to collaborate appropriately.
Greetings,
Valentín Vinagre Urteaga
CTO
Sygel Technology S.L
+34 613 04 66 67 valentin.vinagre@sygel.es https://www.sygel.es C/ Àlaba 61, 5ª planta, 08005, Barcelona
El El jue, 26 jun 2025 a las 13:27, Daniel Reis <notifications@odoo-community.org> escribió:
Hello all,
First I would like to thank all community members for voicing their perspectives around the current situation with the oca/bank-payment project. Your commitment to OCA’s long-term success and open collaboration is deeply appreciated.
Reviewing the discussion for a Board Member perspective I feel there are some important notes that need to be made here.
I will not comment on any technical details, nor will I discuss any views on individual attitudes or merits. As a board member, the most important perspective here is on governance integrity, project ownership, and community trust.
Clarifying on project governance, I believe the OCA Board agrees with me if I say the following:
Respect for PSC Authority The OCA Board reaffirms the Project Steering Committee’s (PSC) responsibility and decision-making authority within the scope of their projects. This is foundational to our community governance model and must be preserved.
Transparency and Neutrality of the Board The Board’s role is not to impose technical decisions but to facilitate alignment, mediate conflicts when escalated, and uphold governance structures. We acknowledge that people involved in PSCs can also be Board members, but they are not acting in that capacity, and it does not grant them any particular privileges in those PSCs.
Forks and Innovation Channels While forks are a natural part of open-source ecosystems, “endorsed” forks under the OCA umbrella must be handled transparently, with consensus from relevant PSCs and clear processes.
In face of the above, and on some comments on the email thread, I need to set the record straight:
Let me reaffirm that it is NOT up to the OCA Board to make decisions on the direction of oca/bank-payment project, or any other project governed by a PSC for the matter.
It is solely up to the Banking PSC to make the decisions on the evolution of the project, and how to handle diverging options.
The Board can intervene to facilitate alignment, but the decisions ultimately need to come from the PSC.
Perhaps the PSC needs to meet to clarify the decisions made and the plan for the main and fork repos. A joint written statement can help ensure a shared understanding of those commitments, and avoid misunderstandings. The OCA Board is here to help facilitate this, and our Executive Director, Virginie, can help to ensure total independence on this facilitation.
Thank you Daniel
On 25/06/2025 08:58, Jorge Elena Poblet wrote:
Dear all,
I would like to express my opinion on this matter and propose a perspective that focuses on broader value, community cohesion, and long-term sustainability.
While I recognize that Alexis' code is technically sound, we must also evaluate it in terms of value proposition to the OCA and its ecosystem. In my view, the added value does not outweigh the negative consequences of a fragmented community. The creation of a fork (especially one that causes division) undermines our collective efforts not only in terms of development but also in our market competitiveness as implementation partners offering open-source solutions.
We are not just competing on code quality. We are competing in a global market where alignment, collaboration, and unity are crucial. A divided community weakens our position, and this discord will inevitably impact other critical areas such as sponsorships, memberships, and contributor engagement.
If the OCA board allowed this situation to unfold (or worse, endorsed it) then I firmly believe the OCA board has a responsibility to fix it. That means actively engaging with the involved parties, reestablishing governance boundaries, and restoring trust and unity within the community. We look to the board not only for leadership but also for accountability in upholding the values and processes that bind us.
This is no longer just about a particular module or technical choice. It's about governance, trust, and direction. The cost of internal fragmentation is far higher than the perceived benefits of a controversial code improvement, no matter how well-crafted.
We urgently need to redirect our energy and focus toward strengthening our community, improving our collective output, and reinforcing our presence in the Odoo ecosystem. This is how we compete, how we grow, and how we stay relevant. Let’s not allow internal conflict to derail that mission.
Best regards,
On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 8:37 AM Stuart J Mackintosh <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
As well as working with Odoo since 2006 and open Source since 10 years before, I lead a US Open Source foundation. I am an avid supporter of OSC and grateful to all of the contributors.
Normally an observer here, I felt compelled to support Graeme's point that once a governance structure is set up such as PSC, it holds the decision until the PSC is disbanded or leadership is changed. So above any technical argument, governance takes precedence.
The Foundation I lead is the Perl Foundation, well known for the acronym TIMTOWTDI (There Is More Than one Way To Do It) and this holds true in many areas and allows for experiments and empirical improvements, creating the opportunity for constructive arguments. However when on the user face of a successful mature project, there should be one recognised solution - forks etc should all be welcome, however PSC must have authority to recognise what is the official distribution. Once this rule is broken, it becomes very hard to ensure consistency and worst case, leads to core contributors to burn out and exit.
It has been valuable reading the technical exchange on this matter, and concerning to read that there may have been a breach of governance.
Best wishes,
Stuart.
On 24/06/2025 23:12, Graeme Gellatly wrote:
This seems a case of the OCA board overstepping its bounds, and prima facie, appears quite conflicted to boot. When a board can unilaterally override a project leader, this is a problem and it is this behaviour that will lead to senior contributor abandonment. Especially when that project leader has clearly shown a path forward and board members have a vested interest in the alternative. Without this interest a fork was probably avoided altogether (and the new issues this is already creating), and eventually agreement reached, but if it was ultimately deemed necessary, it would have occurred outside the OCA and ultimately converged at some future point.
Pedro and I have had disagreements over the years, and long may they continue. But I was never so churlish to think that just because I thought something was better I could unilaterally sidestep a project leader. Beyond adhering to basic principles of open source governance and mediating, insofar as it does not affect the OCA Project as a whole, this is not a board decision. By its own constitution, such power is vested in the PSC. The board can choose to remove a PSC, but not unilaterally override its decision and historically when such disputes reached the board that was often the consideration. This is Open Source dynamics forever under the "authority follows responsibility" principle.
In this, I can only back him 100%. As the clear leader of this particular project under the responsibility principle, whether you agree with him or not, it is a PSC decision and ultimately the project leader. If years of contribution and merit can be discarded by fiat, then it isn't really open source anymore is it? I ask myself which repo will be next. Certainly for me, if the OCA wishes to abandon these principles, it is not for the better.
On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:47 PM Pedro M. Baeza <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
There are a lot of people that strongly disagrees with the creation of this fork, that is something with no precedence in OCA, and offered to merge the improvements into the main branch, with the only exception of the point 1 "Adoption of the native object account.payment.method.line as "Payment Method" (replaces the OCA object account.payment.mode)", postponing the decision to version 19 to check with Odoo SA if they expand the usage of that fields, because the so called "native model" is not for that purpose, and the changes that have been made for adopting it as so is deforming even more the standard, but it was miserable ignored. You can see in the same thread the technical reasons to not use such data model, but also the ethical and practical ones, as the fork started on version 16, ignoring all the improvements and bugfixes done meanwhile in 17 (or now announced in this thread as new things, while they were there for a long time thanks to multiple contributors), and also not respecting such contributions attribution, which is one of the main principles of the open source.
I'm deeply disappointed by both the attitude of the people involved, including some board members, and the arbitration done by the OCA itself, and I'm personally commiting to bring the improvements mentioned here that are still pending (obviously, respecting the attribution) to the main OCA/bank-payment branch, so please take all of this into account when you decide which one to use.
Regards._______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe
--
Stuart J Mackintosh
Business & digital technology consultant
Open Digital Consulting Co
UK: +44 20 36 27 90 40
FR: +33 1 89 48 00 40
Email: sjm@opendigital.cc
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--
Jorge Elena Poblet
Founder & CEO
Binhex
j.elena@binhex.cloud
Office (Spain) : +34 622 40 08 08
Office (USA): +1 561 403 4406Offices:
Miami | 8325 NE 2nd Ave, Miami, FL 33138, United States
Texas | 27027 Westheimer Pkwy Katy, TX 77494, United States
Tenerife | Street Subida al Mayorazgo, 13, Office 15-2
Las Palmas | Edificio Polivalente IV Campus de Tafira Parque Tecnológico de Gran Canaria Start for free: Try Odoo Community in the cloud This email is confidential and intended only for the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete it immediately.
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DANIEL REIS
MANAGING PARTNER>> Schedule time on my calendar.
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M: +351 919 991 307
E: dreis@OpenSourceIntegrators.com
A: Avenida da República 3000, Estoril Office Center, 2649-517 Cascais
by Daniel Reis - 12:24 - 27 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
Alexis,You removed all history from 17 and part of 16. Some of the fixes that you made were already done by other people.I am just analyzing https://github.com/OCA/bank-payment-alternative/pull/5. The same might happen with all other modules of your alternative, but I don't have the energy or time to do it...Just to start: you didn't rewrite the history. Commits will be lost on next migration (removing people attribution in the next migration, not now...)We shared with you how to do it here in a non-blocking review (we didn't want to block your job): https://github.com/OCA/bank-payment-alternative/pull/5#pullrequestreview-2931804750About removing people attribution: I will raise 2 small examples because it takes time to compare.- https://github.com/OCA/bank-payment/commit/e43d4bc45b1693db6fd95665d47b095334ef267c#diff-9a169df5110d406a72c04ed6f7444122f52423112f5ddb1c2c199e619b35f60a was included directly by your commit https://github.com/OCA/bank-payment-alternative/commit/76f7432fde71daa1d26e8bbed527690cee4e819b- https://github.com/OCA/bank-payment/commit/1d37132360fae0d8b6d3204e63007862f3325922 was lost. It improved how it was handled the tests but you ignored it...Do you need more examples?El jue, 26 jun 2025 a las 17:06, Valentin Vinagre Urteaga (<notifications@odoo-community.org>) escribió:Hi everyone,Honestly, I don't understand certain attitudes of the board and of PSCs in the community. I don't know if the community spirit has been lost and only the business spirit remains.
I've been in OCA for years, and honestly, this environment, decisions, and 0 accountability... it just seems like no one wants to take responsibility for anything, and in the end, OCA is shelved due to the lack of collaboration. A new repository will be opened among and for members who truly want to collaborate appropriately.Greetings,Valentín Vinagre Urteaga
CTO
Sygel Technology S.L
+34 613 04 66 67 valentin.vinagre@sygel.es https://www.sygel.es C/ Àlaba 61, 5ª planta, 08005, Barcelona El El jue, 26 jun 2025 a las 13:27, Daniel Reis <notifications@odoo-community.org> escribió:Hello all,
First I would like to thank all community members for voicing their perspectives around the current situation with the oca/bank-payment project. Your commitment to OCA’s long-term success and open collaboration is deeply appreciated.
Reviewing the discussion for a Board Member perspective I feel there are some important notes that need to be made here.
I will not comment on any technical details, nor will I discuss any views on individual attitudes or merits. As a board member, the most important perspective here is on governance integrity, project ownership, and community trust.
Clarifying on project governance, I believe the OCA Board agrees with me if I say the following:
Respect for PSC Authority The OCA Board reaffirms the Project Steering Committee’s (PSC) responsibility and decision-making authority within the scope of their projects. This is foundational to our community governance model and must be preserved.
Transparency and Neutrality of the Board The Board’s role is not to impose technical decisions but to facilitate alignment, mediate conflicts when escalated, and uphold governance structures. We acknowledge that people involved in PSCs can also be Board members, but they are not acting in that capacity, and it does not grant them any particular privileges in those PSCs.
Forks and Innovation Channels While forks are a natural part of open-source ecosystems, “endorsed” forks under the OCA umbrella must be handled transparently, with consensus from relevant PSCs and clear processes.
In face of the above, and on some comments on the email thread, I need to set the record straight:
Let me reaffirm that it is NOT up to the OCA Board to make decisions on the direction of oca/bank-payment project, or any other project governed by a PSC for the matter.
It is solely up to the Banking PSC to make the decisions on the evolution of the project, and how to handle diverging options.
The Board can intervene to facilitate alignment, but the decisions ultimately need to come from the PSC.
Perhaps the PSC needs to meet to clarify the decisions made and the plan for the main and fork repos. A joint written statement can help ensure a shared understanding of those commitments, and avoid misunderstandings. The OCA Board is here to help facilitate this, and our Executive Director, Virginie, can help to ensure total independence on this facilitation.
Thank you Daniel
On 25/06/2025 08:58, Jorge Elena Poblet wrote:
Dear all,
I would like to express my opinion on this matter and propose a perspective that focuses on broader value, community cohesion, and long-term sustainability.
While I recognize that Alexis' code is technically sound, we must also evaluate it in terms of value proposition to the OCA and its ecosystem. In my view, the added value does not outweigh the negative consequences of a fragmented community. The creation of a fork (especially one that causes division) undermines our collective efforts not only in terms of development but also in our market competitiveness as implementation partners offering open-source solutions.
We are not just competing on code quality. We are competing in a global market where alignment, collaboration, and unity are crucial. A divided community weakens our position, and this discord will inevitably impact other critical areas such as sponsorships, memberships, and contributor engagement.
If the OCA board allowed this situation to unfold (or worse, endorsed it) then I firmly believe the OCA board has a responsibility to fix it. That means actively engaging with the involved parties, reestablishing governance boundaries, and restoring trust and unity within the community. We look to the board not only for leadership but also for accountability in upholding the values and processes that bind us.
This is no longer just about a particular module or technical choice. It's about governance, trust, and direction. The cost of internal fragmentation is far higher than the perceived benefits of a controversial code improvement, no matter how well-crafted.
We urgently need to redirect our energy and focus toward strengthening our community, improving our collective output, and reinforcing our presence in the Odoo ecosystem. This is how we compete, how we grow, and how we stay relevant. Let’s not allow internal conflict to derail that mission.
Best regards,
On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 8:37 AM Stuart J Mackintosh <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
As well as working with Odoo since 2006 and open Source since 10 years before, I lead a US Open Source foundation. I am an avid supporter of OSC and grateful to all of the contributors.
Normally an observer here, I felt compelled to support Graeme's point that once a governance structure is set up such as PSC, it holds the decision until the PSC is disbanded or leadership is changed. So above any technical argument, governance takes precedence.
The Foundation I lead is the Perl Foundation, well known for the acronym TIMTOWTDI (There Is More Than one Way To Do It) and this holds true in many areas and allows for experiments and empirical improvements, creating the opportunity for constructive arguments. However when on the user face of a successful mature project, there should be one recognised solution - forks etc should all be welcome, however PSC must have authority to recognise what is the official distribution. Once this rule is broken, it becomes very hard to ensure consistency and worst case, leads to core contributors to burn out and exit.
It has been valuable reading the technical exchange on this matter, and concerning to read that there may have been a breach of governance.
Best wishes,
Stuart.
On 24/06/2025 23:12, Graeme Gellatly wrote:
This seems a case of the OCA board overstepping its bounds, and prima facie, appears quite conflicted to boot. When a board can unilaterally override a project leader, this is a problem and it is this behaviour that will lead to senior contributor abandonment. Especially when that project leader has clearly shown a path forward and board members have a vested interest in the alternative. Without this interest a fork was probably avoided altogether (and the new issues this is already creating), and eventually agreement reached, but if it was ultimately deemed necessary, it would have occurred outside the OCA and ultimately converged at some future point.
Pedro and I have had disagreements over the years, and long may they continue. But I was never so churlish to think that just because I thought something was better I could unilaterally sidestep a project leader. Beyond adhering to basic principles of open source governance and mediating, insofar as it does not affect the OCA Project as a whole, this is not a board decision. By its own constitution, such power is vested in the PSC. The board can choose to remove a PSC, but not unilaterally override its decision and historically when such disputes reached the board that was often the consideration. This is Open Source dynamics forever under the "authority follows responsibility" principle.
In this, I can only back him 100%. As the clear leader of this particular project under the responsibility principle, whether you agree with him or not, it is a PSC decision and ultimately the project leader. If years of contribution and merit can be discarded by fiat, then it isn't really open source anymore is it? I ask myself which repo will be next. Certainly for me, if the OCA wishes to abandon these principles, it is not for the better.
On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:47 PM Pedro M. Baeza <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
There are a lot of people that strongly disagrees with the creation of this fork, that is something with no precedence in OCA, and offered to merge the improvements into the main branch, with the only exception of the point 1 "Adoption of the native object account.payment.method.line as "Payment Method" (replaces the OCA object account.payment.mode)", postponing the decision to version 19 to check with Odoo SA if they expand the usage of that fields, because the so called "native model" is not for that purpose, and the changes that have been made for adopting it as so is deforming even more the standard, but it was miserable ignored. You can see in the same thread the technical reasons to not use such data model, but also the ethical and practical ones, as the fork started on version 16, ignoring all the improvements and bugfixes done meanwhile in 17 (or now announced in this thread as new things, while they were there for a long time thanks to multiple contributors), and also not respecting such contributions attribution, which is one of the main principles of the open source.
I'm deeply disappointed by both the attitude of the people involved, including some board members, and the arbitration done by the OCA itself, and I'm personally commiting to bring the improvements mentioned here that are still pending (obviously, respecting the attribution) to the main OCA/bank-payment branch, so please take all of this into account when you decide which one to use.
Regards._______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--
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Business & digital technology consultant
Open Digital Consulting Co
UK: +44 20 36 27 90 40
FR: +33 1 89 48 00 40
Email: sjm@opendigital.cc
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Jorge Elena Poblet
Founder & CEO
Binhex
j.elena@binhex.cloud
Office (Spain) : +34 622 40 08 08
Office (USA): +1 561 403 4406Offices:
Miami | 8325 NE 2nd Ave, Miami, FL 33138, United States
Texas | 27027 Westheimer Pkwy Katy, TX 77494, United States
Tenerife | Street Subida al Mayorazgo, 13, Office 15-2
Las Palmas | Edificio Polivalente IV Campus de Tafira Parque Tecnológico de Gran Canaria
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MANAGING PARTNER>> Schedule time on my calendar.
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--Enric Tobella AlomarCEO & Founder
by Enric Tobella Alomar - 12:23 - 27 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
Thanks for the Board comments. Honestly, I was expecting something more concrete and focused.
We already had a PSC meeting on this topic, where we explicitly said we were against creating this repository. We even offered to help Alexis find a different solution to avoid it. That was ignored.
I don’t expect anything useful to come from a second meeting. It’s obvious Alexis has no intention of deleting the repository, and so far, all I’ve seen from the Board is an effort to protect his image while sidelining everyone who disagrees. If we push back, we’re labeled as histrionic.
This isn’t collaboration—it’s damage control.
Maybe I am too direct, but I am tired of this topic.
El jue, 26 jun 2025 a las 13:26, Daniel Reis (<notifications@odoo-community.org>) escribió:Hello all,
First I would like to thank all community members for voicing their perspectives around the current situation with the oca/bank-payment project. Your commitment to OCA’s long-term success and open collaboration is deeply appreciated.
Reviewing the discussion for a Board Member perspective I feel there are some important notes that need to be made here.
I will not comment on any technical details, nor will I discuss any views on individual attitudes or merits. As a board member, the most important perspective here is on governance integrity, project ownership, and community trust.
Clarifying on project governance, I believe the OCA Board agrees with me if I say the following:
Respect for PSC Authority The OCA Board reaffirms the Project Steering Committee’s (PSC) responsibility and decision-making authority within the scope of their projects. This is foundational to our community governance model and must be preserved.
Transparency and Neutrality of the Board The Board’s role is not to impose technical decisions but to facilitate alignment, mediate conflicts when escalated, and uphold governance structures. We acknowledge that people involved in PSCs can also be Board members, but they are not acting in that capacity, and it does not grant them any particular privileges in those PSCs.
Forks and Innovation Channels While forks are a natural part of open-source ecosystems, “endorsed” forks under the OCA umbrella must be handled transparently, with consensus from relevant PSCs and clear processes.
In face of the above, and on some comments on the email thread, I need to set the record straight:
Let me reaffirm that it is NOT up to the OCA Board to make decisions on the direction of oca/bank-payment project, or any other project governed by a PSC for the matter.
It is solely up to the Banking PSC to make the decisions on the evolution of the project, and how to handle diverging options.
The Board can intervene to facilitate alignment, but the decisions ultimately need to come from the PSC.
Perhaps the PSC needs to meet to clarify the decisions made and the plan for the main and fork repos. A joint written statement can help ensure a shared understanding of those commitments, and avoid misunderstandings. The OCA Board is here to help facilitate this, and our Executive Director, Virginie, can help to ensure total independence on this facilitation.
Thank you Daniel
On 25/06/2025 08:58, Jorge Elena Poblet wrote:
Dear all,
I would like to express my opinion on this matter and propose a perspective that focuses on broader value, community cohesion, and long-term sustainability.
While I recognize that Alexis' code is technically sound, we must also evaluate it in terms of value proposition to the OCA and its ecosystem. In my view, the added value does not outweigh the negative consequences of a fragmented community. The creation of a fork (especially one that causes division) undermines our collective efforts not only in terms of development but also in our market competitiveness as implementation partners offering open-source solutions.
We are not just competing on code quality. We are competing in a global market where alignment, collaboration, and unity are crucial. A divided community weakens our position, and this discord will inevitably impact other critical areas such as sponsorships, memberships, and contributor engagement.
If the OCA board allowed this situation to unfold (or worse, endorsed it) then I firmly believe the OCA board has a responsibility to fix it. That means actively engaging with the involved parties, reestablishing governance boundaries, and restoring trust and unity within the community. We look to the board not only for leadership but also for accountability in upholding the values and processes that bind us.
This is no longer just about a particular module or technical choice. It's about governance, trust, and direction. The cost of internal fragmentation is far higher than the perceived benefits of a controversial code improvement, no matter how well-crafted.
We urgently need to redirect our energy and focus toward strengthening our community, improving our collective output, and reinforcing our presence in the Odoo ecosystem. This is how we compete, how we grow, and how we stay relevant. Let’s not allow internal conflict to derail that mission.
Best regards,
On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 8:37 AM Stuart J Mackintosh <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
As well as working with Odoo since 2006 and open Source since 10 years before, I lead a US Open Source foundation. I am an avid supporter of OSC and grateful to all of the contributors.
Normally an observer here, I felt compelled to support Graeme's point that once a governance structure is set up such as PSC, it holds the decision until the PSC is disbanded or leadership is changed. So above any technical argument, governance takes precedence.
The Foundation I lead is the Perl Foundation, well known for the acronym TIMTOWTDI (There Is More Than one Way To Do It) and this holds true in many areas and allows for experiments and empirical improvements, creating the opportunity for constructive arguments. However when on the user face of a successful mature project, there should be one recognised solution - forks etc should all be welcome, however PSC must have authority to recognise what is the official distribution. Once this rule is broken, it becomes very hard to ensure consistency and worst case, leads to core contributors to burn out and exit.
It has been valuable reading the technical exchange on this matter, and concerning to read that there may have been a breach of governance.
Best wishes,
Stuart.
On 24/06/2025 23:12, Graeme Gellatly wrote:
This seems a case of the OCA board overstepping its bounds, and prima facie, appears quite conflicted to boot. When a board can unilaterally override a project leader, this is a problem and it is this behaviour that will lead to senior contributor abandonment. Especially when that project leader has clearly shown a path forward and board members have a vested interest in the alternative. Without this interest a fork was probably avoided altogether (and the new issues this is already creating), and eventually agreement reached, but if it was ultimately deemed necessary, it would have occurred outside the OCA and ultimately converged at some future point.
Pedro and I have had disagreements over the years, and long may they continue. But I was never so churlish to think that just because I thought something was better I could unilaterally sidestep a project leader. Beyond adhering to basic principles of open source governance and mediating, insofar as it does not affect the OCA Project as a whole, this is not a board decision. By its own constitution, such power is vested in the PSC. The board can choose to remove a PSC, but not unilaterally override its decision and historically when such disputes reached the board that was often the consideration. This is Open Source dynamics forever under the "authority follows responsibility" principle.
In this, I can only back him 100%. As the clear leader of this particular project under the responsibility principle, whether you agree with him or not, it is a PSC decision and ultimately the project leader. If years of contribution and merit can be discarded by fiat, then it isn't really open source anymore is it? I ask myself which repo will be next. Certainly for me, if the OCA wishes to abandon these principles, it is not for the better.
On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:47 PM Pedro M. Baeza <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
There are a lot of people that strongly disagrees with the creation of this fork, that is something with no precedence in OCA, and offered to merge the improvements into the main branch, with the only exception of the point 1 "Adoption of the native object account.payment.method.line as "Payment Method" (replaces the OCA object account.payment.mode)", postponing the decision to version 19 to check with Odoo SA if they expand the usage of that fields, because the so called "native model" is not for that purpose, and the changes that have been made for adopting it as so is deforming even more the standard, but it was miserable ignored. You can see in the same thread the technical reasons to not use such data model, but also the ethical and practical ones, as the fork started on version 16, ignoring all the improvements and bugfixes done meanwhile in 17 (or now announced in this thread as new things, while they were there for a long time thanks to multiple contributors), and also not respecting such contributions attribution, which is one of the main principles of the open source.
I'm deeply disappointed by both the attitude of the people involved, including some board members, and the arbitration done by the OCA itself, and I'm personally commiting to bring the improvements mentioned here that are still pending (obviously, respecting the attribution) to the main OCA/bank-payment branch, so please take all of this into account when you decide which one to use.
Regards._______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--
Stuart J Mackintosh
Business & digital technology consultant
Open Digital Consulting Co
UK: +44 20 36 27 90 40
FR: +33 1 89 48 00 40
Email: sjm@opendigital.cc
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--
Jorge Elena Poblet
Founder & CEO
Binhex
j.elena@binhex.cloud
Office (Spain) : +34 622 40 08 08
Office (USA): +1 561 403 4406Offices:
Miami | 8325 NE 2nd Ave, Miami, FL 33138, United States
Texas | 27027 Westheimer Pkwy Katy, TX 77494, United States
Tenerife | Street Subida al Mayorazgo, 13, Office 15-2
Las Palmas | Edificio Polivalente IV Campus de Tafira Parque Tecnológico de Gran Canaria
Start for free: Try Odoo Community in the cloud This email is confidential and intended only for the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete it immediately.
Privacy Policy_______________________________________________
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Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--
DANIEL REIS
MANAGING PARTNER>> Schedule time on my calendar.
M: +351 919 991 307
E: dreis@OpenSourceIntegrators.com
A: Avenida da República 3000, Estoril Office Center, 2649-517 Cascais
_______________________________________________
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--Enric Tobella AlomarCEO & Founder
by Enric Tobella Alomar - 12:23 - 27 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
Alexis,You removed all history from 17 and part of 16. Some of the fixes that you made were already done by other people.I am just analyzing https://github.com/OCA/bank-payment-alternative/pull/5. The same might happen with all other modules of your alternative, but I don't have the energy or time to do it...Just to start: you didn't rewrite the history. Commits will be lost on next migration (removing people attribution in the next migration, not now...)We shared with you how to do it here in a non-blocking review (we didn't want to block your job): https://github.com/OCA/bank-payment-alternative/pull/5#pullrequestreview-2931804750About removing people attribution: I will raise 2 small examples because it takes time to compare.- https://github.com/OCA/bank-payment/commit/e43d4bc45b1693db6fd95665d47b095334ef267c#diff-9a169df5110d406a72c04ed6f7444122f52423112f5ddb1c2c199e619b35f60a was included directly by your commit https://github.com/OCA/bank-payment-alternative/commit/76f7432fde71daa1d26e8bbed527690cee4e819b- https://github.com/OCA/bank-payment/commit/1d37132360fae0d8b6d3204e63007862f3325922 was lost. It improved how it was handled the tests but you ignored it...Do you need more examples?My recomendation would be: "check the history of branch 17"El lun, 23 jun 2025 a las 23:52, Alexis de Lattre (<notifications@odoo-community.org>) escribió:Le sam. 21 juin 2025 à 11:47, Pedro M. Baeza <notifications@odoo-community.org> a écrit :and also not respecting such contributions attribution, which is one of the main principles of the open source.I agree with you, contribution attribution is very important in free software projects. If there is some code in OCA/bank-payment-alternative that doesn't respect contribution attribution please report it and we'll fix it.--Alexis de Lattre
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--Enric Tobella AlomarCEO & Founder
by Enric Tobella Alomar - 12:23 - 27 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
Hi everyone,Honestly, I don't understand certain attitudes of the board and of PSCs in the community. I don't know if the community spirit has been lost and only the business spirit remains.
I've been in OCA for years, and honestly, this environment, decisions, and 0 accountability... it just seems like no one wants to take responsibility for anything, and in the end, OCA is shelved due to the lack of collaboration. A new repository will be opened among and for members who truly want to collaborate appropriately.Greetings,Valentín Vinagre Urteaga
CTO
Sygel Technology S.L
+34 613 04 66 67 valentin.vinagre@sygel.es https://www.sygel.es C/ Àlaba 61, 5ª planta, 08005, Barcelona El El jue, 26 jun 2025 a las 13:27, Daniel Reis <notifications@odoo-community.org> escribió:Hello all,
First I would like to thank all community members for voicing their perspectives around the current situation with the oca/bank-payment project. Your commitment to OCA’s long-term success and open collaboration is deeply appreciated.
Reviewing the discussion for a Board Member perspective I feel there are some important notes that need to be made here.
I will not comment on any technical details, nor will I discuss any views on individual attitudes or merits. As a board member, the most important perspective here is on governance integrity, project ownership, and community trust.
Clarifying on project governance, I believe the OCA Board agrees with me if I say the following:
Respect for PSC Authority The OCA Board reaffirms the Project Steering Committee’s (PSC) responsibility and decision-making authority within the scope of their projects. This is foundational to our community governance model and must be preserved.
Transparency and Neutrality of the Board The Board’s role is not to impose technical decisions but to facilitate alignment, mediate conflicts when escalated, and uphold governance structures. We acknowledge that people involved in PSCs can also be Board members, but they are not acting in that capacity, and it does not grant them any particular privileges in those PSCs.
Forks and Innovation Channels While forks are a natural part of open-source ecosystems, “endorsed” forks under the OCA umbrella must be handled transparently, with consensus from relevant PSCs and clear processes.
In face of the above, and on some comments on the email thread, I need to set the record straight:
Let me reaffirm that it is NOT up to the OCA Board to make decisions on the direction of oca/bank-payment project, or any other project governed by a PSC for the matter.
It is solely up to the Banking PSC to make the decisions on the evolution of the project, and how to handle diverging options.
The Board can intervene to facilitate alignment, but the decisions ultimately need to come from the PSC.
Perhaps the PSC needs to meet to clarify the decisions made and the plan for the main and fork repos. A joint written statement can help ensure a shared understanding of those commitments, and avoid misunderstandings. The OCA Board is here to help facilitate this, and our Executive Director, Virginie, can help to ensure total independence on this facilitation.
Thank you Daniel
On 25/06/2025 08:58, Jorge Elena Poblet wrote:
Dear all,
I would like to express my opinion on this matter and propose a perspective that focuses on broader value, community cohesion, and long-term sustainability.
While I recognize that Alexis' code is technically sound, we must also evaluate it in terms of value proposition to the OCA and its ecosystem. In my view, the added value does not outweigh the negative consequences of a fragmented community. The creation of a fork (especially one that causes division) undermines our collective efforts not only in terms of development but also in our market competitiveness as implementation partners offering open-source solutions.
We are not just competing on code quality. We are competing in a global market where alignment, collaboration, and unity are crucial. A divided community weakens our position, and this discord will inevitably impact other critical areas such as sponsorships, memberships, and contributor engagement.
If the OCA board allowed this situation to unfold (or worse, endorsed it) then I firmly believe the OCA board has a responsibility to fix it. That means actively engaging with the involved parties, reestablishing governance boundaries, and restoring trust and unity within the community. We look to the board not only for leadership but also for accountability in upholding the values and processes that bind us.
This is no longer just about a particular module or technical choice. It's about governance, trust, and direction. The cost of internal fragmentation is far higher than the perceived benefits of a controversial code improvement, no matter how well-crafted.
We urgently need to redirect our energy and focus toward strengthening our community, improving our collective output, and reinforcing our presence in the Odoo ecosystem. This is how we compete, how we grow, and how we stay relevant. Let’s not allow internal conflict to derail that mission.
Best regards,
On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 8:37 AM Stuart J Mackintosh <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
As well as working with Odoo since 2006 and open Source since 10 years before, I lead a US Open Source foundation. I am an avid supporter of OSC and grateful to all of the contributors.
Normally an observer here, I felt compelled to support Graeme's point that once a governance structure is set up such as PSC, it holds the decision until the PSC is disbanded or leadership is changed. So above any technical argument, governance takes precedence.
The Foundation I lead is the Perl Foundation, well known for the acronym TIMTOWTDI (There Is More Than one Way To Do It) and this holds true in many areas and allows for experiments and empirical improvements, creating the opportunity for constructive arguments. However when on the user face of a successful mature project, there should be one recognised solution - forks etc should all be welcome, however PSC must have authority to recognise what is the official distribution. Once this rule is broken, it becomes very hard to ensure consistency and worst case, leads to core contributors to burn out and exit.
It has been valuable reading the technical exchange on this matter, and concerning to read that there may have been a breach of governance.
Best wishes,
Stuart.
On 24/06/2025 23:12, Graeme Gellatly wrote:
This seems a case of the OCA board overstepping its bounds, and prima facie, appears quite conflicted to boot. When a board can unilaterally override a project leader, this is a problem and it is this behaviour that will lead to senior contributor abandonment. Especially when that project leader has clearly shown a path forward and board members have a vested interest in the alternative. Without this interest a fork was probably avoided altogether (and the new issues this is already creating), and eventually agreement reached, but if it was ultimately deemed necessary, it would have occurred outside the OCA and ultimately converged at some future point.
Pedro and I have had disagreements over the years, and long may they continue. But I was never so churlish to think that just because I thought something was better I could unilaterally sidestep a project leader. Beyond adhering to basic principles of open source governance and mediating, insofar as it does not affect the OCA Project as a whole, this is not a board decision. By its own constitution, such power is vested in the PSC. The board can choose to remove a PSC, but not unilaterally override its decision and historically when such disputes reached the board that was often the consideration. This is Open Source dynamics forever under the "authority follows responsibility" principle.
In this, I can only back him 100%. As the clear leader of this particular project under the responsibility principle, whether you agree with him or not, it is a PSC decision and ultimately the project leader. If years of contribution and merit can be discarded by fiat, then it isn't really open source anymore is it? I ask myself which repo will be next. Certainly for me, if the OCA wishes to abandon these principles, it is not for the better.
On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:47 PM Pedro M. Baeza <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
There are a lot of people that strongly disagrees with the creation of this fork, that is something with no precedence in OCA, and offered to merge the improvements into the main branch, with the only exception of the point 1 "Adoption of the native object account.payment.method.line as "Payment Method" (replaces the OCA object account.payment.mode)", postponing the decision to version 19 to check with Odoo SA if they expand the usage of that fields, because the so called "native model" is not for that purpose, and the changes that have been made for adopting it as so is deforming even more the standard, but it was miserable ignored. You can see in the same thread the technical reasons to not use such data model, but also the ethical and practical ones, as the fork started on version 16, ignoring all the improvements and bugfixes done meanwhile in 17 (or now announced in this thread as new things, while they were there for a long time thanks to multiple contributors), and also not respecting such contributions attribution, which is one of the main principles of the open source.
I'm deeply disappointed by both the attitude of the people involved, including some board members, and the arbitration done by the OCA itself, and I'm personally commiting to bring the improvements mentioned here that are still pending (obviously, respecting the attribution) to the main OCA/bank-payment branch, so please take all of this into account when you decide which one to use.
Regards._______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe
--
Stuart J Mackintosh
Business & digital technology consultant
Open Digital Consulting Co
UK: +44 20 36 27 90 40
FR: +33 1 89 48 00 40
Email: sjm@opendigital.cc
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--
Jorge Elena Poblet
Founder & CEO
Binhex
j.elena@binhex.cloud
Office (Spain) : +34 622 40 08 08
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by Valentín Vinagre - 05:06 - 26 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
Hello all,
First I would like to thank all community members for voicing their perspectives around the current situation with the oca/bank-payment project. Your commitment to OCA’s long-term success and open collaboration is deeply appreciated.
Reviewing the discussion for a Board Member perspective I feel there are some important notes that need to be made here.
I will not comment on any technical details, nor will I discuss any views on individual attitudes or merits. As a board member, the most important perspective here is on governance integrity, project ownership, and community trust.
Clarifying on project governance, I believe the OCA Board agrees with me if I say the following:
Respect for PSC Authority The OCA Board reaffirms the Project Steering Committee’s (PSC) responsibility and decision-making authority within the scope of their projects. This is foundational to our community governance model and must be preserved.
Transparency and Neutrality of the Board The Board’s role is not to impose technical decisions but to facilitate alignment, mediate conflicts when escalated, and uphold governance structures. We acknowledge that people involved in PSCs can also be Board members, but they are not acting in that capacity, and it does not grant them any particular privileges in those PSCs.
Forks and Innovation Channels While forks are a natural part of open-source ecosystems, “endorsed” forks under the OCA umbrella must be handled transparently, with consensus from relevant PSCs and clear processes.
In face of the above, and on some comments on the email thread, I need to set the record straight:
Let me reaffirm that it is NOT up to the OCA Board to make decisions on the direction of oca/bank-payment project, or any other project governed by a PSC for the matter.
It is solely up to the Banking PSC to make the decisions on the evolution of the project, and how to handle diverging options.
The Board can intervene to facilitate alignment, but the decisions ultimately need to come from the PSC.
Perhaps the PSC needs to meet to clarify the decisions made and the plan for the main and fork repos. A joint written statement can help ensure a shared understanding of those commitments, and avoid misunderstandings. The OCA Board is here to help facilitate this, and our Executive Director, Virginie, can help to ensure total independence on this facilitation.
Thank you Daniel
On 25/06/2025 08:58, Jorge Elena Poblet wrote:
Dear all,
I would like to express my opinion on this matter and propose a perspective that focuses on broader value, community cohesion, and long-term sustainability.
While I recognize that Alexis' code is technically sound, we must also evaluate it in terms of value proposition to the OCA and its ecosystem. In my view, the added value does not outweigh the negative consequences of a fragmented community. The creation of a fork (especially one that causes division) undermines our collective efforts not only in terms of development but also in our market competitiveness as implementation partners offering open-source solutions.
We are not just competing on code quality. We are competing in a global market where alignment, collaboration, and unity are crucial. A divided community weakens our position, and this discord will inevitably impact other critical areas such as sponsorships, memberships, and contributor engagement.
If the OCA board allowed this situation to unfold (or worse, endorsed it) then I firmly believe the OCA board has a responsibility to fix it. That means actively engaging with the involved parties, reestablishing governance boundaries, and restoring trust and unity within the community. We look to the board not only for leadership but also for accountability in upholding the values and processes that bind us.
This is no longer just about a particular module or technical choice. It's about governance, trust, and direction. The cost of internal fragmentation is far higher than the perceived benefits of a controversial code improvement, no matter how well-crafted.
We urgently need to redirect our energy and focus toward strengthening our community, improving our collective output, and reinforcing our presence in the Odoo ecosystem. This is how we compete, how we grow, and how we stay relevant. Let’s not allow internal conflict to derail that mission.
Best regards,
On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 8:37 AM Stuart J Mackintosh <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
As well as working with Odoo since 2006 and open Source since 10 years before, I lead a US Open Source foundation. I am an avid supporter of OSC and grateful to all of the contributors.
Normally an observer here, I felt compelled to support Graeme's point that once a governance structure is set up such as PSC, it holds the decision until the PSC is disbanded or leadership is changed. So above any technical argument, governance takes precedence.
The Foundation I lead is the Perl Foundation, well known for the acronym TIMTOWTDI (There Is More Than one Way To Do It) and this holds true in many areas and allows for experiments and empirical improvements, creating the opportunity for constructive arguments. However when on the user face of a successful mature project, there should be one recognised solution - forks etc should all be welcome, however PSC must have authority to recognise what is the official distribution. Once this rule is broken, it becomes very hard to ensure consistency and worst case, leads to core contributors to burn out and exit.
It has been valuable reading the technical exchange on this matter, and concerning to read that there may have been a breach of governance.
Best wishes,
Stuart.
On 24/06/2025 23:12, Graeme Gellatly wrote:
This seems a case of the OCA board overstepping its bounds, and prima facie, appears quite conflicted to boot. When a board can unilaterally override a project leader, this is a problem and it is this behaviour that will lead to senior contributor abandonment. Especially when that project leader has clearly shown a path forward and board members have a vested interest in the alternative. Without this interest a fork was probably avoided altogether (and the new issues this is already creating), and eventually agreement reached, but if it was ultimately deemed necessary, it would have occurred outside the OCA and ultimately converged at some future point.
Pedro and I have had disagreements over the years, and long may they continue. But I was never so churlish to think that just because I thought something was better I could unilaterally sidestep a project leader. Beyond adhering to basic principles of open source governance and mediating, insofar as it does not affect the OCA Project as a whole, this is not a board decision. By its own constitution, such power is vested in the PSC. The board can choose to remove a PSC, but not unilaterally override its decision and historically when such disputes reached the board that was often the consideration. This is Open Source dynamics forever under the "authority follows responsibility" principle.
In this, I can only back him 100%. As the clear leader of this particular project under the responsibility principle, whether you agree with him or not, it is a PSC decision and ultimately the project leader. If years of contribution and merit can be discarded by fiat, then it isn't really open source anymore is it? I ask myself which repo will be next. Certainly for me, if the OCA wishes to abandon these principles, it is not for the better.
On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:47 PM Pedro M. Baeza <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
There are a lot of people that strongly disagrees with the creation of this fork, that is something with no precedence in OCA, and offered to merge the improvements into the main branch, with the only exception of the point 1 "Adoption of the native object account.payment.method.line as "Payment Method" (replaces the OCA object account.payment.mode)", postponing the decision to version 19 to check with Odoo SA if they expand the usage of that fields, because the so called "native model" is not for that purpose, and the changes that have been made for adopting it as so is deforming even more the standard, but it was miserable ignored. You can see in the same thread the technical reasons to not use such data model, but also the ethical and practical ones, as the fork started on version 16, ignoring all the improvements and bugfixes done meanwhile in 17 (or now announced in this thread as new things, while they were there for a long time thanks to multiple contributors), and also not respecting such contributions attribution, which is one of the main principles of the open source.
I'm deeply disappointed by both the attitude of the people involved, including some board members, and the arbitration done by the OCA itself, and I'm personally commiting to bring the improvements mentioned here that are still pending (obviously, respecting the attribution) to the main OCA/bank-payment branch, so please take all of this into account when you decide which one to use.
Regards._______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe
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Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--
Stuart J Mackintosh
Business & digital technology consultant
Open Digital Consulting Co
UK: +44 20 36 27 90 40
FR: +33 1 89 48 00 40
Email: sjm@opendigital.cc
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Jorge Elena Poblet
Founder & CEO
Binhex
j.elena@binhex.cloud
Office (Spain) : +34 622 40 08 08
Office (USA): +1 561 403 4406Offices:
Miami | 8325 NE 2nd Ave, Miami, FL 33138, United States
Texas | 27027 Westheimer Pkwy Katy, TX 77494, United States
Tenerife | Street Subida al Mayorazgo, 13, Office 15-2
Las Palmas | Edificio Polivalente IV Campus de Tafira Parque Tecnológico de Gran Canaria
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DANIEL REIS
MANAGING PARTNER>> Schedule time on my calendar.
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by Daniel Reis - 01:20 - 26 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
On 23/06/2025 09:17, Javier Colmenero wrote:
The worst part of all this is that it creates incompatibilities between modules. This means that if you have a module that depends on the new fork, you won't be able to use modules that rely on the traditional ones.
For example, if this PR https://github.com/OCA/connector-ecommerce/pull/83 is migrated with the new dependency on
account_payment_base_oca_sale, then I can no longer use any module that depends onaccount_payment..., making entire sets of modules incompatible with each other.This is a disaster when trying to migrate projects, as it forces you to give up certain modules.
This is a design problem that you can collaborate with the PR author to resolve, not an unavoidable disaster.
In the past I have personally cases of modules I wanted to use that "forced" unwanted dependencies, and proposed extracting them out.
--
DANIEL REIS
MANAGING PARTNER>> Schedule time on my calendar.
M: +351 919 991 307
E: dreis@OpenSourceIntegrators.com
A: Avenida da República 3000, Estoril Office Center, 2649-517 Cascais
by Daniel Reis - 09:17 - 26 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
Hi all,During the Spanish OCA days I expressed my concern with Alexis about the fact that the substitute of the OCA account.payment.order is the enterprise batch payment, which follows an altogether different strategy. The way Odoo as introduced the payment method in the partner is intended to be used in connection with the enterprise batch payment, and does not add value when used in CE.Remember, for a single field in the res.partner we are generating a fork with massive rippling effects.In my opinion it is time to escalate to Odoo the concerns that Pedro already expressed about using a particular payment method in the res.partner. And through the exchange with Odoo we may come to a better solution together in the future.On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 9:58 AM Jorge Elena Poblet <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:Dear all,
I would like to express my opinion on this matter and propose a perspective that focuses on broader value, community cohesion, and long-term sustainability.
While I recognize that Alexis' code is technically sound, we must also evaluate it in terms of value proposition to the OCA and its ecosystem. In my view, the added value does not outweigh the negative consequences of a fragmented community. The creation of a fork (especially one that causes division) undermines our collective efforts not only in terms of development but also in our market competitiveness as implementation partners offering open-source solutions.
We are not just competing on code quality. We are competing in a global market where alignment, collaboration, and unity are crucial. A divided community weakens our position, and this discord will inevitably impact other critical areas such as sponsorships, memberships, and contributor engagement.
If the OCA board allowed this situation to unfold (or worse, endorsed it) then I firmly believe the OCA board has a responsibility to fix it. That means actively engaging with the involved parties, reestablishing governance boundaries, and restoring trust and unity within the community. We look to the board not only for leadership but also for accountability in upholding the values and processes that bind us.
This is no longer just about a particular module or technical choice. It's about governance, trust, and direction. The cost of internal fragmentation is far higher than the perceived benefits of a controversial code improvement, no matter how well-crafted.
We urgently need to redirect our energy and focus toward strengthening our community, improving our collective output, and reinforcing our presence in the Odoo ecosystem. This is how we compete, how we grow, and how we stay relevant. Let’s not allow internal conflict to derail that mission.
Best regards,
On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 8:37 AM Stuart J Mackintosh <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
As well as working with Odoo since 2006 and open Source since 10 years before, I lead a US Open Source foundation. I am an avid supporter of OSC and grateful to all of the contributors.
Normally an observer here, I felt compelled to support Graeme's point that once a governance structure is set up such as PSC, it holds the decision until the PSC is disbanded or leadership is changed. So above any technical argument, governance takes precedence.
The Foundation I lead is the Perl Foundation, well known for the acronym TIMTOWTDI (There Is More Than one Way To Do It) and this holds true in many areas and allows for experiments and empirical improvements, creating the opportunity for constructive arguments. However when on the user face of a successful mature project, there should be one recognised solution - forks etc should all be welcome, however PSC must have authority to recognise what is the official distribution. Once this rule is broken, it becomes very hard to ensure consistency and worst case, leads to core contributors to burn out and exit.
It has been valuable reading the technical exchange on this matter, and concerning to read that there may have been a breach of governance.
Best wishes,
Stuart.
On 24/06/2025 23:12, Graeme Gellatly wrote:
This seems a case of the OCA board overstepping its bounds, and prima facie, appears quite conflicted to boot. When a board can unilaterally override a project leader, this is a problem and it is this behaviour that will lead to senior contributor abandonment. Especially when that project leader has clearly shown a path forward and board members have a vested interest in the alternative. Without this interest a fork was probably avoided altogether (and the new issues this is already creating), and eventually agreement reached, but if it was ultimately deemed necessary, it would have occurred outside the OCA and ultimately converged at some future point.
Pedro and I have had disagreements over the years, and long may they continue. But I was never so churlish to think that just because I thought something was better I could unilaterally sidestep a project leader. Beyond adhering to basic principles of open source governance and mediating, insofar as it does not affect the OCA Project as a whole, this is not a board decision. By its own constitution, such power is vested in the PSC. The board can choose to remove a PSC, but not unilaterally override its decision and historically when such disputes reached the board that was often the consideration. This is Open Source dynamics forever under the "authority follows responsibility" principle.
In this, I can only back him 100%. As the clear leader of this particular project under the responsibility principle, whether you agree with him or not, it is a PSC decision and ultimately the project leader. If years of contribution and merit can be discarded by fiat, then it isn't really open source anymore is it? I ask myself which repo will be next. Certainly for me, if the OCA wishes to abandon these principles, it is not for the better.
On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:47 PM Pedro M. Baeza <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
There are a lot of people that strongly disagrees with the creation of this fork, that is something with no precedence in OCA, and offered to merge the improvements into the main branch, with the only exception of the point 1 "Adoption of the native object account.payment.method.line as "Payment Method" (replaces the OCA object account.payment.mode)", postponing the decision to version 19 to check with Odoo SA if they expand the usage of that fields, because the so called "native model" is not for that purpose, and the changes that have been made for adopting it as so is deforming even more the standard, but it was miserable ignored. You can see in the same thread the technical reasons to not use such data model, but also the ethical and practical ones, as the fork started on version 16, ignoring all the improvements and bugfixes done meanwhile in 17 (or now announced in this thread as new things, while they were there for a long time thanks to multiple contributors), and also not respecting such contributions attribution, which is one of the main principles of the open source.
I'm deeply disappointed by both the attitude of the people involved, including some board members, and the arbitration done by the OCA itself, and I'm personally commiting to bring the improvements mentioned here that are still pending (obviously, respecting the attribution) to the main OCA/bank-payment branch, so please take all of this into account when you decide which one to use.
Regards._______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--
Stuart J Mackintosh
Business & digital technology consultant
Open Digital Consulting Co
UK: +44 20 36 27 90 40
FR: +33 1 89 48 00 40
Email: sjm@opendigital.cc
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
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--Jorge Elena Poblet
Founder & CEO
Binhex
j.elena@binhex.cloud
Office (Spain) : +34 622 40 08 08
Office (USA): +1 561 403 4406Offices:
Miami | 8325 NE 2nd Ave, Miami, FL 33138, United States
Texas | 27027 Westheimer Pkwy Katy, TX 77494, United States
Tenerife | Street Subida al Mayorazgo, 13, Office 15-2
Las Palmas | Edificio Polivalente IV Campus de Tafira Parque Tecnológico de Gran Canaria Start for free: Try Odoo Community in the cloud This email is confidential and intended only for the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete it immediately.
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--Jordi Ballester AlomarCEO & Founder, ForgeFlowSpain: (+34) 629530707 | USA: (+1) 646 980 4659 | Denmark: (+45) 78 78 21 89 - Ext. 101www.forgeflow.com | Email: jordi.ballester@forgeflow.com | Twitter: /jordibforgeflow | Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/forgeflow/
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by Jordi Ballester Alomar - 10:21 - 25 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
Dear all,
I would like to express my opinion on this matter and propose a perspective that focuses on broader value, community cohesion, and long-term sustainability.
While I recognize that Alexis' code is technically sound, we must also evaluate it in terms of value proposition to the OCA and its ecosystem. In my view, the added value does not outweigh the negative consequences of a fragmented community. The creation of a fork (especially one that causes division) undermines our collective efforts not only in terms of development but also in our market competitiveness as implementation partners offering open-source solutions.
We are not just competing on code quality. We are competing in a global market where alignment, collaboration, and unity are crucial. A divided community weakens our position, and this discord will inevitably impact other critical areas such as sponsorships, memberships, and contributor engagement.
If the OCA board allowed this situation to unfold (or worse, endorsed it) then I firmly believe the OCA board has a responsibility to fix it. That means actively engaging with the involved parties, reestablishing governance boundaries, and restoring trust and unity within the community. We look to the board not only for leadership but also for accountability in upholding the values and processes that bind us.
This is no longer just about a particular module or technical choice. It's about governance, trust, and direction. The cost of internal fragmentation is far higher than the perceived benefits of a controversial code improvement, no matter how well-crafted.
We urgently need to redirect our energy and focus toward strengthening our community, improving our collective output, and reinforcing our presence in the Odoo ecosystem. This is how we compete, how we grow, and how we stay relevant. Let’s not allow internal conflict to derail that mission.
Best regards,
On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 8:37 AM Stuart J Mackintosh <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
As well as working with Odoo since 2006 and open Source since 10 years before, I lead a US Open Source foundation. I am an avid supporter of OSC and grateful to all of the contributors.
Normally an observer here, I felt compelled to support Graeme's point that once a governance structure is set up such as PSC, it holds the decision until the PSC is disbanded or leadership is changed. So above any technical argument, governance takes precedence.
The Foundation I lead is the Perl Foundation, well known for the acronym TIMTOWTDI (There Is More Than one Way To Do It) and this holds true in many areas and allows for experiments and empirical improvements, creating the opportunity for constructive arguments. However when on the user face of a successful mature project, there should be one recognised solution - forks etc should all be welcome, however PSC must have authority to recognise what is the official distribution. Once this rule is broken, it becomes very hard to ensure consistency and worst case, leads to core contributors to burn out and exit.
It has been valuable reading the technical exchange on this matter, and concerning to read that there may have been a breach of governance.
Best wishes,
Stuart.
On 24/06/2025 23:12, Graeme Gellatly wrote:
This seems a case of the OCA board overstepping its bounds, and prima facie, appears quite conflicted to boot. When a board can unilaterally override a project leader, this is a problem and it is this behaviour that will lead to senior contributor abandonment. Especially when that project leader has clearly shown a path forward and board members have a vested interest in the alternative. Without this interest a fork was probably avoided altogether (and the new issues this is already creating), and eventually agreement reached, but if it was ultimately deemed necessary, it would have occurred outside the OCA and ultimately converged at some future point.
Pedro and I have had disagreements over the years, and long may they continue. But I was never so churlish to think that just because I thought something was better I could unilaterally sidestep a project leader. Beyond adhering to basic principles of open source governance and mediating, insofar as it does not affect the OCA Project as a whole, this is not a board decision. By its own constitution, such power is vested in the PSC. The board can choose to remove a PSC, but not unilaterally override its decision and historically when such disputes reached the board that was often the consideration. This is Open Source dynamics forever under the "authority follows responsibility" principle.
In this, I can only back him 100%. As the clear leader of this particular project under the responsibility principle, whether you agree with him or not, it is a PSC decision and ultimately the project leader. If years of contribution and merit can be discarded by fiat, then it isn't really open source anymore is it? I ask myself which repo will be next. Certainly for me, if the OCA wishes to abandon these principles, it is not for the better.
On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:47 PM Pedro M. Baeza <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
There are a lot of people that strongly disagrees with the creation of this fork, that is something with no precedence in OCA, and offered to merge the improvements into the main branch, with the only exception of the point 1 "Adoption of the native object account.payment.method.line as "Payment Method" (replaces the OCA object account.payment.mode)", postponing the decision to version 19 to check with Odoo SA if they expand the usage of that fields, because the so called "native model" is not for that purpose, and the changes that have been made for adopting it as so is deforming even more the standard, but it was miserable ignored. You can see in the same thread the technical reasons to not use such data model, but also the ethical and practical ones, as the fork started on version 16, ignoring all the improvements and bugfixes done meanwhile in 17 (or now announced in this thread as new things, while they were there for a long time thanks to multiple contributors), and also not respecting such contributions attribution, which is one of the main principles of the open source.
I'm deeply disappointed by both the attitude of the people involved, including some board members, and the arbitration done by the OCA itself, and I'm personally commiting to bring the improvements mentioned here that are still pending (obviously, respecting the attribution) to the main OCA/bank-payment branch, so please take all of this into account when you decide which one to use.
Regards._______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe
--
Stuart J Mackintosh
Business & digital technology consultant
Open Digital Consulting Co
UK: +44 20 36 27 90 40
FR: +33 1 89 48 00 40
Email: sjm@opendigital.cc
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--Jorge Elena Poblet
Founder & CEO
Binhex
j.elena@binhex.cloud
Office (Spain) : +34 622 40 08 08
Office (USA): +1 561 403 4406Offices:
Miami | 8325 NE 2nd Ave, Miami, FL 33138, United States
Texas | 27027 Westheimer Pkwy Katy, TX 77494, United States
Tenerife | Street Subida al Mayorazgo, 13, Office 15-2
Las Palmas | Edificio Polivalente IV Campus de Tafira Parque Tecnológico de Gran Canaria Start for free: Try Odoo Community in the cloud This email is confidential and intended only for the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete it immediately.
Privacy Policy
by Jorge Elena Poblet - 09:58 - 25 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
As well as working with Odoo since 2006 and open Source since 10 years before, I lead a US Open Source foundation. I am an avid supporter of OSC and grateful to all of the contributors.
Normally an observer here, I felt compelled to support Graeme's point that once a governance structure is set up such as PSC, it holds the decision until the PSC is disbanded or leadership is changed. So above any technical argument, governance takes precedence.
The Foundation I lead is the Perl Foundation, well known for the acronym TIMTOWTDI (There Is More Than one Way To Do It) and this holds true in many areas and allows for experiments and empirical improvements, creating the opportunity for constructive arguments. However when on the user face of a successful mature project, there should be one recognised solution - forks etc should all be welcome, however PSC must have authority to recognise what is the official distribution. Once this rule is broken, it becomes very hard to ensure consistency and worst case, leads to core contributors to burn out and exit.
It has been valuable reading the technical exchange on this matter, and concerning to read that there may have been a breach of governance.
Best wishes,
Stuart.
On 24/06/2025 23:12, Graeme Gellatly wrote:
This seems a case of the OCA board overstepping its bounds, and prima facie, appears quite conflicted to boot. When a board can unilaterally override a project leader, this is a problem and it is this behaviour that will lead to senior contributor abandonment. Especially when that project leader has clearly shown a path forward and board members have a vested interest in the alternative. Without this interest a fork was probably avoided altogether (and the new issues this is already creating), and eventually agreement reached, but if it was ultimately deemed necessary, it would have occurred outside the OCA and ultimately converged at some future point.
Pedro and I have had disagreements over the years, and long may they continue. But I was never so churlish to think that just because I thought something was better I could unilaterally sidestep a project leader. Beyond adhering to basic principles of open source governance and mediating, insofar as it does not affect the OCA Project as a whole, this is not a board decision. By its own constitution, such power is vested in the PSC. The board can choose to remove a PSC, but not unilaterally override its decision and historically when such disputes reached the board that was often the consideration. This is Open Source dynamics forever under the "authority follows responsibility" principle.
In this, I can only back him 100%. As the clear leader of this particular project under the responsibility principle, whether you agree with him or not, it is a PSC decision and ultimately the project leader. If years of contribution and merit can be discarded by fiat, then it isn't really open source anymore is it? I ask myself which repo will be next. Certainly for me, if the OCA wishes to abandon these principles, it is not for the better.
On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:47 PM Pedro M. Baeza <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:
There are a lot of people that strongly disagrees with the creation of this fork, that is something with no precedence in OCA, and offered to merge the improvements into the main branch, with the only exception of the point 1 "Adoption of the native object account.payment.method.line as "Payment Method" (replaces the OCA object account.payment.mode)", postponing the decision to version 19 to check with Odoo SA if they expand the usage of that fields, because the so called "native model" is not for that purpose, and the changes that have been made for adopting it as so is deforming even more the standard, but it was miserable ignored. You can see in the same thread the technical reasons to not use such data model, but also the ethical and practical ones, as the fork started on version 16, ignoring all the improvements and bugfixes done meanwhile in 17 (or now announced in this thread as new things, while they were there for a long time thanks to multiple contributors), and also not respecting such contributions attribution, which is one of the main principles of the open source.
I'm deeply disappointed by both the attitude of the people involved, including some board members, and the arbitration done by the OCA itself, and I'm personally commiting to bring the improvements mentioned here that are still pending (obviously, respecting the attribution) to the main OCA/bank-payment branch, so please take all of this into account when you decide which one to use.
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by Stuart J Mackintosh - 09:36 - 25 Jun 2025 -
Re: OCA/bank-payment-alternative
This seems a case of the OCA board overstepping its bounds, and prima facie, appears quite conflicted to boot. When a board can unilaterally override a project leader, this is a problem and it is this behaviour that will lead to senior contributor abandonment. Especially when that project leader has clearly shown a path forward and board members have a vested interest in the alternative. Without this interest a fork was probably avoided altogether (and the new issues this is already creating), and eventually agreement reached, but if it was ultimately deemed necessary, it would have occurred outside the OCA and ultimately converged at some future point.Pedro and I have had disagreements over the years, and long may they continue. But I was never so churlish to think that just because I thought something was better I could unilaterally sidestep a project leader. Beyond adhering to basic principles of open source governance and mediating, insofar as it does not affect the OCA Project as a whole, this is not a board decision. By its own constitution, such power is vested in the PSC. The board can choose to remove a PSC, but not unilaterally override its decision and historically when such disputes reached the board that was often the consideration. This is Open Source dynamics forever under the "authority follows responsibility" principle.In this, I can only back him 100%. As the clear leader of this particular project under the responsibility principle, whether you agree with him or not, it is a PSC decision and ultimately the project leader. If years of contribution and merit can be discarded by fiat, then it isn't really open source anymore is it? I ask myself which repo will be next. Certainly for me, if the OCA wishes to abandon these principles, it is not for the better.On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:47 PM Pedro M. Baeza <notifications@odoo-community.org> wrote:There are a lot of people that strongly disagrees with the creation of this fork, that is something with no precedence in OCA, and offered to merge the improvements into the main branch, with the only exception of the point 1 "Adoption of the native object account.payment.method.line as "Payment Method" (replaces the OCA object account.payment.mode)", postponing the decision to version 19 to check with Odoo SA if they expand the usage of that fields, because the so called "native model" is not for that purpose, and the changes that have been made for adopting it as so is deforming even more the standard, but it was miserable ignored. You can see in the same thread the technical reasons to not use such data model, but also the ethical and practical ones, as the fork started on version 16, ignoring all the improvements and bugfixes done meanwhile in 17 (or now announced in this thread as new things, while they were there for a long time thanks to multiple contributors), and also not respecting such contributions attribution, which is one of the main principles of the open source.I'm deeply disappointed by both the attitude of the people involved, including some board members, and the arbitration done by the OCA itself, and I'm personally commiting to bring the improvements mentioned here that are still pending (obviously, respecting the attribution) to the main OCA/bank-payment branch, so please take all of this into account when you decide which one to use.Regards._______________________________________________
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by Graeme Gellatly - 11:10 - 24 Jun 2025 -
Re: New module to upgrade Odoo from Odoo itself
Hi Cyril,it works, thanks very much!Sergio CoratoIl giorno lun 23 giu 2025 alle ore 19:59 Cyril VINH-TUNG <notifications@odoo-community.org> ha scritto:Hi SergioBest regards--------------------------------
Cyril VINH-TUNG
INVITU
Computer & Network Engineering
BP 32 - 98713 Papeete - French Polynesia
Tél: +689 40 46 11 99
contact@invitu.comLe dim. 22 juin 2025, 22:06, Sergio Corato <notifications@odoo-community.org> a écrit :Hi Cyril,about external debian dependencies, like this one `libcairo2-dev`, I tried (see https://github.com/efatto/openupgrader/actions/runs/15818453346/job/44581882551 ), but this is not a binary.Sergio CoratoIl giorno sab 21 giu 2025 alle ore 03:36 Cyril VINH-TUNG <notifications@odoo-community.org> ha scritto:Hi Sergio,It looks great !So you need an odoo instance to upgrade other instances, right ?I guess the goal is to let non technical persons to manage migrations... ?About external debian dependencies, I think you can manage that with _manifest__.pyBest regards--------------------------------
Cyril VINH-TUNG
INVITU
Computer & Network Engineering
BP 32 - 98713 Papeete - French Polynesia
Tél: +689 40 46 11 99
contact@invitu.comLe ven. 20 juin 2025, 03:21, Sergio Corato <notifications@odoo-community.org> a écrit :Hi all!I put in a module for Odoo the methods I use to migrate Odoo from v. 7.0 onwards, to migrate to one or more upper versions from inside Odoo itself.It works by creating a series of virtualenv, one for each version to migrate, and making some customizable fixes on the process.The readme of the module is here https://github.com/efatto/openupgrader/blob/14.0/openupgrader/README.rst and I would like to contribute it to OCA if possible.Sergio CoratoNotes:1. The methods need a robust refactoring - I've started to write them when I barely knew Python - but they have worked for several years, migrating more versions like from 8.0 to 12.0.2. This module needs some extra debian package to work in the default OCA container, so it's impossible to make the tests work now.Sergio Corato_______________________________________________
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by Sergio Corato - 04:20 - 24 Jun 2025 -
Re: Complete Visitors List for Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025
It's also very probable that those replies are from the same scammers..
On 6/24/25 14:52, AMIRI wrote:
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More information
Rachid AMIRI
Le mar. 24 juin 2025 à 12:58, Houssine BAKKALI <notifications@odoo-community.org> a écrit :
It's a scam. Ignore those kinds of mail.
Le mar. 24 juin 2025 à 13:36, shamim.ahmed <notifications@odoo-community.org> a écrit :
Hi,
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More information
Regards.
Shamim
From: Lisa Nancy <notifications@odoo-community.org>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2025 4:18 pm
To: Contributors <contributors@odoo-community.org>
Subject: Complete Visitors List for Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025
Hi,
How are you?
Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025, a pre-registered 3,852 Attendee list is available! to fulfil your promotional efforts.
Date: 18 - 20 Sep 2025Venue: Brussels Expo - Exhibition Center, Brussels, Belgium
Could you let me know if you want to receive the Attendee List with the Exclusive fee?
List Includes: - Industry Type, Company_Name, Contact_Name, First_Name, Middle_Name, Last_Name, Titles, Address, City, State, ZIP Code, Phone_Number, Country and Business Type etc.Kindly describes your response:
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More information
· OPT-OUTBest regards,
Lisa Nancy
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--
Cordialement
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M. Rachid AMIRI
Consulting & digital services
Mobile: +213.551.44.62.44
Email: rachid.amiri@gmail.com
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by Danny de Jong - 03:20 - 24 Jun 2025 -
Re: Complete Visitors List for Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More informationRachid AMIRILe mar. 24 juin 2025 à 12:58, Houssine BAKKALI <notifications@odoo-community.org> a écrit :It's a scam. Ignore those kinds of mail.Le mar. 24 juin 2025 à 13:36, shamim.ahmed <notifications@odoo-community.org> a écrit :Hi,
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More information
Regards.
Shamim
From: Lisa Nancy <notifications@odoo-community.org>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2025 4:18 pm
To: Contributors <contributors@odoo-community.org>
Subject: Complete Visitors List for Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025Hi,
How are you?
Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025, a pre-registered 3,852 Attendee list is available! to fulfil your promotional efforts.
Date: 18 - 20 Sep 2025Venue: Brussels Expo - Exhibition Center, Brussels, Belgium
Could you let me know if you want to receive the Attendee List with the Exclusive fee?
List Includes: - Industry Type, Company_Name, Contact_Name, First_Name, Middle_Name, Last_Name, Titles, Address, City, State, ZIP Code, Phone_Number, Country and Business Type etc.Kindly describes your response:
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More information
· OPT-OUTBest regards,
Lisa Nancy
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe_______________________________________________
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Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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--Cordialement
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M. Rachid AMIRI
Consulting & digital services
Mobile: +213.551.44.62.44
Email: rachid.amiri@gmail.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by Rachid AMIRI - 02:51 - 24 Jun 2025 -
Re: Complete Visitors List for Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025
Hello,Indeed, we received this email to all the possible emails address of the OCA. I am very sorry about that. We use gmail as our mails server to avoid spams, it usually works well except for those lists of visitors.I don't really know how to protect our mailing list from that, except by adding a moderation of all the emails going to the mailing list. With the limited time that we have to work for the OCA, I think it would be a waste of time.So, please, indeed, don't answer to those kind of emails.Le mar. 24 juin 2025 à 13:58, Houssine BAKKALI <notifications@odoo-community.org> a écrit :It's a scam. Ignore those kinds of mail.Le mar. 24 juin 2025 à 13:36, shamim.ahmed <notifications@odoo-community.org> a écrit :Hi,
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More information
Regards.
Shamim
From: Lisa Nancy <notifications@odoo-community.org>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2025 4:18 pm
To: Contributors <contributors@odoo-community.org>
Subject: Complete Visitors List for Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025Hi,
How are you?
Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025, a pre-registered 3,852 Attendee list is available! to fulfil your promotional efforts.
Date: 18 - 20 Sep 2025Venue: Brussels Expo - Exhibition Center, Brussels, Belgium
Could you let me know if you want to receive the Attendee List with the Exclusive fee?
List Includes: - Industry Type, Company_Name, Contact_Name, First_Name, Middle_Name, Last_Name, Titles, Address, City, State, ZIP Code, Phone_Number, Country and Business Type etc.Kindly describes your response:
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More information
· OPT-OUTBest regards,
Lisa Nancy
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe_______________________________________________
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by Virginie Dewulf (OCA) - 02:26 - 24 Jun 2025 -
Re: Complete Visitors List for Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025
It's a scam. Ignore those kinds of mail.Le mar. 24 juin 2025 à 13:36, shamim.ahmed <notifications@odoo-community.org> a écrit :Hi,
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More information
Regards.
Shamim
From: Lisa Nancy <notifications@odoo-community.org>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2025 4:18 pm
To: Contributors <contributors@odoo-community.org>
Subject: Complete Visitors List for Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025Hi,
How are you?
Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025, a pre-registered 3,852 Attendee list is available! to fulfil your promotional efforts.
Date: 18 - 20 Sep 2025Venue: Brussels Expo - Exhibition Center, Brussels, Belgium
Could you let me know if you want to receive the Attendee List with the Exclusive fee?
List Includes: - Industry Type, Company_Name, Contact_Name, First_Name, Middle_Name, Last_Name, Titles, Address, City, State, ZIP Code, Phone_Number, Country and Business Type etc.Kindly describes your response:
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More information
· OPT-OUTBest regards,
Lisa Nancy
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe_______________________________________________
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by Houssine BAKKALI - 01:56 - 24 Jun 2025 -
RE: Complete Visitors List for Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025
Hi,
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More information
Regards.
Shamim
From: Lisa Nancy <notifications@odoo-community.org>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2025 4:18 pm
To: Contributors <contributors@odoo-community.org>
Subject: Complete Visitors List for Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025Hi,
How are you?
Odoo Experience Exhibition 2025, a pre-registered 3,852 Attendee list is available! to fulfil your promotional efforts.
Date: 18 - 20 Sep 2025Venue: Brussels Expo - Exhibition Center, Brussels, Belgium
Could you let me know if you want to receive the Attendee List with the Exclusive fee?
List Includes: - Industry Type, Company_Name, Contact_Name, First_Name, Middle_Name, Last_Name, Titles, Address, City, State, ZIP Code, Phone_Number, Country and Business Type etc.Kindly describes your response:
· Yes, I am Interested, send me exclusive Fee and More information
· OPT-OUTBest regards,
Lisa Nancy
_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
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by Muhammad Shamim Ahmed - 01:35 - 24 Jun 2025
